No imei-check Kaiser unlock (or Florin_m vs pof) |
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 Oct 9 2007, 08:16
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#1
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 The Main Man  Group: Admin Team Posts: 19,770 Joined: 6th November 2002 From: Norwich, UK Member No.: 1 Device(s): HTC Advantage  |
I've just had a note from Florin_m of imei-check re: the Kaiser unlock they have been working on, and it's bad news i'm afraid for shackled T-Mobile users et al... imei-check will not be releasing a public Kaiser unlock, and have released the statement below:
 There's no doubt this is an issue that's been bubbling under for a while now in the 'underground', but it looks like things are coming to a head. What's everyone's thoughts? Of course we only have one side of the story, but if there IS IP from imei-check's commercial developments in the 'free solutions', then that's not on. I'll see if I can get a response from pof @ xda-developers on the issue! P [Edit: Rebuttal from POF at xda-developers: (warning, strong language, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1572884)] (via: http://www.imei-check.co.uk/kaiserunlock.php) -------------------- Paul O'Brien - Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices, MoDaCo.network Founder. Check out my Blog! £10 off a £20 spend at eXpansys - click for details |
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Oct 9 2007, 09:06
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#2
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 Resident nutter  Group: News Team Posts: 151 Joined: 6th December 2002 From: Brighton, UK Member No.: 803 |
As someone that has used both the paid IMEI-Check unlocks and then the free XDA Dev's one for various devices over the years, I wasn't aware until last year that pof et al were actually cracking the IMEI-Check software for their own purposes.
Accordingly what they are pushing out is nothing more than IP theft and should florin and his team wish to proceed with legal action against them they would appear to have a reasonably strong case. I for one will continue to use IMEI-Check for future unlocks, conscience clear that the guys that did the work are getting the financial rewards due. -------------------- Paul Cuckoo - - Contact me to see how VoIP can improve your business - - Meridian Options HTC Tytn II (Kaiser) / OS: WM6 5.2.1620 / ROM: 1.56.405.5 / Radio: 1.27.12.11 |
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Oct 9 2007, 09:12
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#3
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Addict  Group: MoDaCo Ad Free Posts: 711 Joined: 19th November 2003 From: London - UK Member No.: 21,445 Device(s): HTC TyTN II |
QUOTE(magic_peanuts @ Oct 9 2007, 10:06)  As someone that has used both the paid IMEI-Check unlocks and then the free XDA Dev's one for various devices over the years, I wasn't aware until last year that pof et al were actually cracking the IMEI-Check software for their own purposes. Accordingly what they are pushing out is nothing more than IP theft and should florin and his team wish to proceed with legal action against them they would appear to have a reasonably strong case. I for one will continue to use IMEI-Check for future unlocks, conscience clear that the guys that did the work are getting the financial rewards due. Amen to that. pof & co. should be ashamed. |
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Oct 9 2007, 10:00
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#4
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 Regular  Group: Posters Posts: 112 Joined: 16th January 2004 From: Geidi Prime Member No.: 28,827 |
If the allegation IS true, then I doubt POF & Co will be ashamed. Sorry they were caught perhaps, but not ashamed. Afterall, if it's true, they weren't ashamed about stealing it in the first place, were they?
This post has been edited by FloatingFatMan: Oct 9 2007, 10:06 -------------------- It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that the mind acquires speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning, it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... |
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Oct 9 2007, 10:02
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#5
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The Main Man Group: Admin Team Posts: 19,770 Joined: 6th November 2002 From: Norwich, UK Member No.: 1 Device(s): HTC Advantage |
Eh?
'the software' in question is the unlocker, that you have to download to do the unlock! P -------------------- Paul O'Brien - Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices, MoDaCo.network Founder. Check out my Blog! £10 off a £20 spend at eXpansys - click for details |
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Oct 9 2007, 10:38
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#6
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Regular Group: MoDaCo Plus Posts: 126 Joined: 17th March 2004 From: Newcastle, UK Member No.: 36,676 |
I'm in two minds about this.
On one hand, I generally see reverse engineering as an ethically legitimate (and legal) method of learning about software. It's how progress gets made - people dissect existing solutions and look for ways to improve them. Florin has reverse engineered the HTC's code, to discover its workings and remove its restrictions. Now other's have reversed engineered Florin's code, to discover its workings and remove its restrictions. It's all good. Enforcing artificial monopolies where people are not free to dissect existing ideas and build upon them hinders technological progress, and is bad for society as a whole. On the other hand, assuming Florin's side of the story is correct, we're not dealing with a case where someone re-used the same *technique* in order to release a competitive solution, but actually released modules copied from Florin's solution, without fully understanding how they operate. Legal issues aside, this is certainly on flaky ethical grounds. Gripe: I really wish people would learn to differentiate between copyright infringement and theft --------------------  |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:03
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#7
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Enthusiast Group: Posters Posts: 173 Joined: 30th July 2005 Member No.: 141,775 Device(s): HTC Touch Dual - 20 key EU |
One point worth making is that T-Mobile will unlock a Vario III for £15 whereas the imei-check solutions are £20, and I believe they'll do it at any point in your contract. For Vario III users it obviously makes sense to go the supported route and get it from T-Mobile...
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Oct 9 2007, 11:06
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#8
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 Peanut Brain Group: MoDaCo Plus Posts: 6,134 Joined: 10th September 2004 From: Surrey, England Member No.: 56,072 Device(s): Athena, Qtek 8500 |
imei-check didn't release the unlocker for the Athena either but Olipro soon unlocked it. I'm sure someone would have hacked it anyway but if what florin is saying and they are using his code then that is theft.
There are some very clever people out there - florin being one of them. He makes money from it and does a great job, I have used him in the past, for someone to develop there own unlocking method is one thing but to steal someone elses is IMHO not on. -------------------- He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.
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Oct 9 2007, 11:27
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#9
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Diehard  Group: Posters Posts: 478 Joined: 10th May 2007 Member No.: 254,928 Device(s): HTC P6500 |
QUOTE(Paul (MVP) @ Oct 9 2007, 09:16) I'll see if I can get a response from pof @ xda-developers on the issue! P Shouldn't you have tried already before providing an outlet for inflammatory comments from Florin? Seems a little one sided just quoting a post with no counterpoint. Is this a balanced journalistic article or propaganda?.... Do you not have a duty to check facts before posting news, not asking for a comment after you post the story? By allowing someone to call someone else a theif with no visible proof in this forum ( and actually posting the quote yourself!) are you not opening yourself to legal action against you by the subject of the story? Just curious, don't fully understand this web publishing lark.... M.S Edit - Can Florin PROVE he had to sack 2 people because of POF's alleged stealing? Seems rather sensationalist to me. There are free versions of most of the unlockers IMEI check sell. AFAIK Pof has only been involved with the hermes unlocker, were IMEI-checks revenues so dependant on hermes unlocks that 2 people got sacked when the free version came out?. Hmmmmmmm...... This post has been edited by Mysterious Stranger: Oct 9 2007, 11:33 |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:39
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#10
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 Enthusiast Group: Posters Posts: 215 Joined: 22nd April 2005 From: UK Member No.: 125,267 Device(s): Vario III |
QUOTE(Confucious @ Oct 9 2007, 12:06) imei-check didn't release the unlocker for the Athena either but Olipro soon unlocked it. I'm sure someone would have hacked it anyway but if what florin is saying and they are using his code then that is theft. Just a quick question - how legal is the IMEI unlocking software? I only ask because it sounds on the one hand like a method for subverting something put in place by the people you took a contract out with when you bought the device. As proved with the Apple/iPhone thing in the US at the moment, it appears to be OK for the operator to brick your phone through an update if you've modified it away from the state you bought it in. Thus using an unlocker breaks the contract. So if the software is illegal, is stealing it morally or legally wrong? Just wondering 
-------------------- Novus Ordo Mundi
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Oct 9 2007, 11:40
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#11
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The Main Man Group: Admin Team Posts: 19,770 Joined: 6th November 2002 From: Norwich, UK Member No.: 1 Device(s): HTC Advantage |
Mysterious Stranger, if you want to be like that...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread...0819&page=6 P -------------------- Paul O'Brien - Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices, MoDaCo.network Founder. Check out my Blog! £10 off a £20 spend at eXpansys - click for details |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:41
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#12
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The Main Man Group: Admin Team Posts: 19,770 Joined: 6th November 2002 From: Norwich, UK Member No.: 1 Device(s): HTC Advantage |
QUOTE(Mysterious Stranger @ Oct 9 2007, 12:27) By allowing someone to call someone else a theif with no visible proof in this forum ( and actually posting the quote yourself!) are you not opening yourself to legal action against you by the subject of the story? See above, but no. QUOTE Edit - Can Florin PROVE he had to sack 2 people because of POF's alleged stealing? Seems rather sensationalist to me. There are free versions of most of the unlockers IMEI check sell. AFAIK Pof has only been involved with the hermes unlocker, were IMEI-checks revenues so dependant on hermes unlocks that 2 people got sacked when the free version came out?. Hmmmmmmm...... That's not really the point is it... P -------------------- Paul O'Brien - Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices, MoDaCo.network Founder. Check out my Blog! £10 off a £20 spend at eXpansys - click for details |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:42
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#13
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The Main Man Group: Admin Team Posts: 19,770 Joined: 6th November 2002 From: Norwich, UK Member No.: 1 Device(s): HTC Advantage |
QUOTE(Mr.Clark @ Oct 9 2007, 12:39) Just a quick question - how legal is the IMEI unlocking software? Software unlocking is completely legal in the UK, and in most countries. P -------------------- Paul O'Brien - Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices, MoDaCo.network Founder. Check out my Blog! £10 off a £20 spend at eXpansys - click for details |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:43
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#14
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Newbie  Group: Posters Posts: 39 Joined: 10th September 2007 Member No.: 298,335 Device(s): Omnia! |
I agree this is a very biased viewpoint and we have no idea what pof's stance is on this. In my opinion, this little whinge from imei check is a bit immature. It would be like Apple saying they are releasing no more updates to the iphone because people are jailbreaking them and using them on other networks (which loses Apple revenue). People will ALWAYS reverse engineer, crack, hack, steal, etc and this has to be taken into account by any firm operating in the market place. To say they aren't going to provide a service because they don't want it stolen/cracked/hacked is a little immature in business terms. I can fully understand imei check wanting to have a bitch, but I don't think it's' very professional.
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Oct 9 2007, 11:49
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#15
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 478 Joined: 10th May 2007 Member No.: 254,928 Device(s): HTC P6500 |
QUOTE(Paul (MVP) @ Oct 9 2007, 12:40) Mysterious Stranger, if you want to be like that... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread...0819&page=6 ;) P Yep, looks pretty conclusive, but the news story needed that in the original post methinks to provide balance / proof.... I'd be curious to know where / how reverse engineering a method that was most likely reversed engineered itself from someone else's IP stands from an IP ownership point of view. I know someone who deals with reverse engineering IP in the pharmaceutical industry, I'll get her comments ;-) M.S |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:52
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#16
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 478 Joined: 10th May 2007 Member No.: 254,928 Device(s): HTC P6500 |
QUOTE(Mysterious Stranger @ Oct 9 2007, 12:27) By allowing someone to call someone else a theif with no visible proof in this forum ( and actually posting the quote yourself!) are you not opening yourself to legal action against you by the subject of the story? QUOTE(Paul (MVP) @ Oct 9 2007, 12:41) See above, but no. Yeah, link provided now, but not in the original (unbalenced?) news story, which was my point... M.S |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:55
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#17
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 478 Joined: 10th May 2007 Member No.: 254,928 Device(s): HTC P6500 |
QUOTE(Mysterious Stranger @ Oct 9 2007, 12:27) Edit - Can Florin PROVE he had to sack 2 people because of POF's alleged stealing? Seems rather sensationalist to me. There are free versions of most of the unlockers IMEI check sell. AFAIK Pof has only been involved with the hermes unlocker, were IMEI-checks revenues so dependant on hermes unlocks that 2 people got sacked when the free version came out?. Hmmmmmmm...... QUOTE(Paul (MVP) @ Oct 9 2007, 12:41) That's not really the point is it... No, but it alludes to the accuracy of the article ( if it is indeed an article in the news section and not just a gripe worthy of the lounge section accidently posted as 'news') and would point to how seriously we should take Florin's claims. M.S |
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Oct 9 2007, 11:56
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#18
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Enthusiast Group: Posters Posts: 215 Joined: 22nd April 2005 From: UK Member No.: 125,267 Device(s): Vario III |
QUOTE(Paul (MVP) @ Oct 9 2007, 12:42) Software unlocking is completely legal in the UK, and in most countries. Well that was easy.That said, are they saying they won't release it because he's allegedly stolen it, or because he's allegedly stolen code from them in the past and they don't want him to get his hands on the kaiser software (that they're not going to release)? Seems slightly counter-productive, but then, what do I know? -------------------- Novus Ordo Mundi
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Oct 9 2007, 12:00
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#19
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The Main Man Group: Admin Team Posts: 19,770 Joined: 6th November 2002 From: Norwich, UK Member No.: 1 Device(s): HTC Advantage |
Well, imei-check are only going to unlock en-masse to avoid putting the software in the public domain (to be reverse engineered). This is particularly the case because the Kaiser unlock is incredibly difficult.
I think it's newsworthy, because many MoDaCo members unlock their devices, and use imei-check to do so. P -------------------- Paul O'Brien - Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices, MoDaCo.network Founder. Check out my Blog! £10 off a £20 spend at eXpansys - click for details |
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Oct 9 2007, 12:08
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#20
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 478 Joined: 10th May 2007 Member No.: 254,928 Device(s): HTC P6500 |
QUOTE(Paul (MVP) @ Oct 9 2007, 13:00) Well, imei-check are only going to unlock en-masse to avoid putting the software in the public domain (to be reverse engineered). This is particularly the case because the Kaiser unlock is incredibly difficult. I think it's newsworthy, because many MoDaCo members unlock their devices, and use imei-check to do so. P I would agree it to be newsworthy, however news articles need to be a certain standard ( factually correct, balanced viewpoint, avoiding 'theif' name calling etc etc) otherwise they're just comment. We don't want modaco ending up like msmoblies< |