3 changing terms from 23 Sep and introducing minimum one min call charges, what can I do? |
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 Aug 18 2008, 10:40
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#1
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Regular  Group: News Team Posts: 59 Joined: 23rd May 2005 From: Telford Member No.: 131,028 Device(s): Tytn 2 !!!  |
As the title suggests I've just found out 3 are changing there terms and conditions and now stating that a minimum call charge of 1 Min for every call including voicemail will be effective from September 23rd. I received a letter stating the change this morning but no option to dispute the change. I'm on a £15 a month deal with them and the vast majority of my calls are 10-40 seconds long, I mostly come closer to using all my minutes with them being charged in second intervals that they are now, so with the 1 Min minimum change I can see me easily running over my phone bills and this costing me money!
Now I don't know what you guys think but I think this stinks! I signed up to the contract because it fitted perfect for my useage at the price. This to me is a major change which is going to mean that my service is going to cost more or be reduced from the original contract which I personally feel is a breach of terms! So really I just wanted to know what you guys think about this and where I stand with this matter as my contracts not up till next March and I'm just not happy with the way i'm being treated by 3 as a customer. Thanks Damian -------------------- Check out my photo's at Damiantmc.weebly.com. It's still a work in progress but it should get bigger soon
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Aug 18 2008, 11:19
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#2
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 The Main Man  Group: Admin Team Posts: 20,966 Joined: 6th November 2002 From: Norwich, UK Member No.: 1 Device(s): HTC Advantage |
I think you likely have grounds for early termination?
P -------------------- Paul O'Brien - Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices, MoDaCo.network Founder. Check out my Blog! £10 off a £20 spend at eXpansys - click for details |
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Aug 18 2008, 11:45
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#3
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Enthusiast  Group: Moderator Team Posts: 183 Joined: 25th November 2002 From: Devon Member No.: 69 Device(s): HTC Touch Diamond |
Yeah, this is a major change as since mobile networks have been digital it has always been a "Per Second" billing charge with no minimum call charge.
Charging for a whole minute is like going back to the old "Analogue" days. I would suggest contacting them, by phone and email asking to be released from your contract. -------------------- Mark
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Aug 18 2008, 11:54
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 Peanut Brain Group: MoDaCo Plus Posts: 6,343 Joined: 10th September 2004 From: Surrey, England Member No.: 56,072 Device(s): iPhone 8Gb. Athena, C600 |
Isn't that a bit of a cop out? They can change the terms of a contract and your only recourse is termination?
Surely they have an obligation to honour the contract or compensate accordingly.... -------------------- He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.
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Aug 18 2008, 23:20
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 'That' Avatar Guy Group: Posters Posts: 1,438 Joined: 23rd November 2003 From: Gateshead, UK Member No.: 21,885 Device(s): Nokia N82, Nokia E51, Vario 2 |
QUOTE(Confucious @ Aug 18 2008, 12:54)  Isn't that a bit of a cop out? They can change the terms of a contract and your only recourse is termination? Surely they have an obligation to honour the contract or compensate accordingly.... Let us know how you get on, as our lass has a 3 Contract account she doesn't really need any more, so would be keen to hear. I'd look into it myself, but this one of my many contracts is actually thanks to my BROTHER, as it was a spare contract he had that he didn't need, that was useful for us at the time. So I can't ring up myself unless I pretend to be him, which I couldn't condone. So if you take this further mate, please report back how you come on, or what they say... -------------------- Phonography: GA628 >(Nokias)3110 >5110 >3210 >6210 >7110 >8210(x2) >8310(x2) >6310i >7210(x3) >7650 >5100(x2) >7250(x2) >6100 >7250i >Blackberry 6230 >Orange E200 SPV >Nokia N-Gage(x2) >Blackberry 7230 >O2 XDA2 (on Orange) >Nokia 6230(x3) >C500 SPV (on O2) >6230i >S.E. K750i (briefly) >Samsung D500 >Nokia 6680 >Nokia 6100 >Nokia 3510i >i-mate SP5 x2 (yes two) >Additional Nokia 6230i >Samsung D600 >T-Mobile MDA Vario >T-Mobile MDA Pro >Nokia 6280 (x2) Vodafone >Nokia 6280 T-Mobile >Nokia 6280 (O2) >Nokia 6233 (O2) > S.E. K800i (T-Mobile) >Nokia N73 (O2) (x2) >Nokia 6233 (O2) (second) >Nokia 6233 (Orange) >T-Mobile MDA Vario 2 >Nokia N80 >Nokia 6300 >S.E. K810i >Nokia 6120c >Nokia N95 (x2) >Nokia E51 (x2) >Nokia N82 (x2) >Nokia E90 Communicator |
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Aug 19 2008, 08:50
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#6
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Newbie  Group: Posters Posts: 23 Joined: 6th September 2005 Member No.: 147,899 Device(s): MDA Compact II, SPV C500 |
Take a look at the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR) at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992083.htm
Important to note that this is a non negotiated contract so the terms of the UTCCR should apply. Note examples of unfair terms in Schedule 2 (j) enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract; (k) enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided; (l) providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded; 2. Scope of paragraphs 1(g), (j) and (l) Paragraph 1(j) is also without hindrance to terms under which a seller or supplier reserves the right to alter unilaterally the conditions of a contract of indeterminate duration, provided that he is required to inform the consumer with reasonable notice and that the consumer is free to dissolve the contract. (d) Paragraph 1(l) is without hindrance to price indexation clauses, where lawful, provided that the method by which prices vary is explicitly described. Firstly my experience of large British corporations is that they have no regard for the UTCCR (the banks even tried to argue in Court that these Laws of the country didn't apply to them - bizarre) so you will probably end up having to go to OFCOM to get a ruling. Secondly you are going to get mighty frustrated in the process. Write to 3 saying that UTCCR suggests that in terms of Schedule 2 (j) and (l) and the scope of those paragraphs this change in the contract significantly alters the contract to your detriment and that the same legislation suggests that you must be allowed to be free to dissolve the contract which you want to do. Ask them to please reply in writing so that their reply can be included in your complaint to OFCOM if they disagree with your assessment. Do not take any calls from them on the matter unless you are able to record that call. Hope this helps you and everyone else. |
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Aug 19 2008, 08:53
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#7
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Not a Newbie Group: Posters Posts: 166 Joined: 30th December 2003 From: somewhere between sanity and a black hole Member No.: 26,573 Device(s): MDA Touch Plus & 6120 (3) |
but all networks do this dont they?
its only the first minute thats getting rounded up. --------------------  |
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Aug 19 2008, 08:56
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#8
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Peanut Brain Group: MoDaCo Plus Posts: 6,343 Joined: 10th September 2004 From: Surrey, England Member No.: 56,072 Device(s): iPhone 8Gb. Athena, C600 |
I've never hear of UTCCR before - good find!
I do find it rather strange that one party to a contract can change the terms and your only recourse is to cancel the contract but the other party has no say and can't cancel the contract under normal circumstances - hardly 'fair' is it? Luckily it doesn't affect me as my only contract with Three is data only. -------------------- He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.
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Aug 20 2008, 09:49
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#9
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Newbie Group: Posters Posts: 23 Joined: 6th September 2005 Member No.: 147,899 Device(s): MDA Compact II, SPV C500 |
QUOTE(Confucious @ Aug 19 2008, 09:56) I've never hear of UTCCR before - good find! Most people haven't and large corporations rely on that fact, which is why they behave as though it doesn't exist. UTCCR and the Sale of Goods Act should be essential reading for all consumers. You will be surprised how much your legal rights get trampled on by UK PLC. When you complain they quickly restore your rights with an apology, but it makes you wonder how often they don't and how much money they make by breaking the law. For instance all goods you buy must work perfectly for an absolute minimum period of 6 months from the time of purchase. Mobile companies abuse this where there is no coverage in your home or place of work. It is clear the ability to use your phone in those two places is a reasonable expectation and if you can't do so then the phone technically doesn't work. Try canceling the contract and see how often you get told you can't do so. Whilst the Act specifies a minimum period of 6 months it doesn't mean that that is the expected period for the goods to work. They are subject to work perfectly for a reasonably expected amount of time. S14(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances. Now getting your mobile on contract you are supposed to sign either an 18 or 24 month contract and forms the "relevant circumstances" required by the Act. I would say it is reasonable to expect the phone to work perfectly for the entire duration of that contract. See what happens if your phone breaks down after the first 12 months and you haven't taken out their expensive extended warranty. |
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Aug 25 2008, 11:22
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#10
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Enthusiast Group: Moderator Team Posts: 183 Joined: 25th November 2002 From: Devon Member No.: 69 Device(s): HTC Touch Diamond |
I've just had an Email from Virgin Mobile to say that they are introducing a minimum 1 minute call charge as of 13th October, so it isn't just 3 doing it...
-------------------- Mark
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Aug 25 2008, 16:35
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#11
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 Enthusiast Group: Posters Posts: 188 Joined: 26th December 2005 From: Oxfordshire Member No.: 164,451 Device(s): Vario III, Nokia 5300 |
if you actually read through the terms and conditions of your contract, then you should find the following clause:
QUOTE(http://www.three.co.uk/personal/help_support_/terms_conditions.omp?cid=1165510904278) Pay Monthly Customers 10.1 You may end this agreement in the following ways: [....] d. Within one month of a detrimental variation to your agreement. You can end the agreement within one month of us telling you about a variation to your agreement (which includes your Price Plan) which is likely to be of detriment to you. You must give written notice to 3 Customer Services within that month and your agreement will finish at the end of that month once we receive your notice. (A Cancellation Fee will not be charged.) As the change they have made to your price plan will be detrimental to you, i.e. that it will result in costing you a coniderable amount more than you currently pay, you have the right to cancel your contract with 3 at no charge, but you MUST make sure that 3 recieve written confirmation of your desire to terminate the contract within 30 days after the date of their letter to you. This basically means phoning customer services and explaining the situation, and as well as doing what they should tell you to do (which will basically be write a letter), also write a letter to whoever the customer services manager is at 3's head office (just address it Director of Customer Relations, it should get through to somebody with power) explaining your situation, why you want to terminate the agreement, and stating clearly the date on which you sent the letter and the date you would like the contract terminated by (30 days after the date of the letter). ALWAYS use recorded post, and make sure that it is tracked, and if you haven't heard confirmation (state the in the letter you would like confirmation they have actioned your request within 14 days), call customer services or head office if necessary and chase it up. This all must happen within 30 days, however, so if you really do want out, you'd best get on with it... Any questions do ask... Andrew PS. You'll be expected to pay for everything you've used up to the time they cancel your account - its best to just pay that (they should pro-rata it so you only pay for the time you use), otherwise you'll end up in a world of problems you won't want This post has been edited by andrewkeith5: Aug 25 2008, 16:37 -------------------- Aston University 2008/9 - Marketing - WOO :D
HTC Kaiser (T-Mo MDA V3 branded) - TLR 6.1 ROM, 2GB MicroSD, iGo 8 on a 515MB MicroSD, T-Mobile FlexT 25 + Web 'n' Walk Standard Acer Aspire Gemstone Blue 6920G - Intel Core 2 Duo T5750 2GHz, 3GB PC2-6400, 200GB HDD, ATi Radeon HD3650 512MB, Dolby Virtual Surround + True5.1 Output, Blu-Ray, HDMI, Fingerprint Recognition, Windows Vista Ultimate SP1, Office 2007 Pro Plus with Onenote 2007 I know what I'm doing, I'm just not doing it :) |
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Aug 28 2008, 12:52
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#12
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Not a Newbie Group: Posters Posts: 166 Joined: 30th December 2003 From: somewhere between sanity and a black hole Member No.: 26,573 Device(s): MDA Touch Plus & 6120 (3) |
i would ask the questions before you terminate your contract:
What will you replace this contract with. and will it work out better for you? i think its a bit of a knee jerk reaction when if you move to another provider they do exactly the same thing.. -------------------- |
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Aug 29 2008, 07:32
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#13
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Newbie Group: Posters Posts: 23 Joined: 8th February 2005 From: Bourenmouth Member No.: 109,336 Device(s): Nokia E71 |
I have a 3 contract for my daughter - she says she can make 6 calls in 60 seconds so this is going make a huge impact to her (my!) bill. I will try and negotiate moving to a better tariff rather than leaving 3 completely because she can't live without free MSN messenger 24 hours/day.....
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Aug 29 2008, 07:51
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#14
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Enthusiast Group: Posters Posts: 188 Joined: 26th December 2005 From: Oxfordshire Member No.: 164,451 Device(s): Vario III, Nokia 5300 |
JEEZ! 6 calls in 60 seconds? why the naff doesn't she just use text messaging...the point of talking is actually to communicte, not to just say a ten second sentence then hang up...
its a good job she isn't on pay as you go, theres a mandatory 1 minute call charge there 
-------------------- Aston University 2008/9 - Marketing - WOO :D
HTC Kaiser (T-Mo MDA V3 branded) - TLR 6.1 ROM, 2GB MicroSD, iGo 8 on a 515MB MicroSD, T-Mobile FlexT 25 + Web 'n' Walk Standard Acer Aspire Gemstone Blue 6920G - Intel Core 2 Duo T5750 2GHz, 3GB PC2-6400, 200GB HDD, ATi Radeon HD3650 512MB, Dolby Virtual Surround + True5.1 Output, Blu-Ray, HDMI, Fingerprint Recognition, Windows Vista Ultimate SP1, Office 2007 Pro Plus with Onenote 2007 I know what I'm doing, I'm just not doing it :) |
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