WARNING - SMS Shortcode theft, Ongoing problem regarding SMS shortcodes |
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 Mar 31 2006, 22:26
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 Diehard  Group: Posters Posts: 344 Joined: 8th January 2003 From: Ayrshire,Scotland Member No.: 1,728  |
Hi all.
Just a word of warning to steer you away from Vodafone UK. I have been a Windows smart phone user since the start with Orange UK but decided to try the Vodafone 3G service. I bought a Samsung z500v on E-bay and got a free sim from Vodafone. Things were ok initially but disintegrated yesterday when I switched on my phone. When I switched on I received 5 text messages, each of which deducted ?1-50p from my PAYT account. The text messages were from some outfit named Logogo -UK with the shortcode 84212. As I had not ordered any ringtones or phone content from anyone I called Vodafone customer services. They gave me telephone and E-mail contact details for the company which had sent the messages and taken the money from my account. I telephoned this company (answer phone) and E-mailed them but have had no response. Tonight I contacted Vodafone customer services again to request that they investigate this matter. They advised me that they would not as it was a Company registered with them. I find it beyond belief that Vodafone, when advised of a possible theft, refuse to investigate it. Thoughts anyone? Davy. -------------------- If in doubt ask the experts here first.
Otherwise you will break the bl**dy thing! |
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Mar 31 2006, 23:33
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#2
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 385 Joined: 31st March 2005 From: Surrey, UK Member No.: 120,987 Device(s): MDA Vario III + MDA Vario |
Seeing as you've posted the same on Modaco and on here, I'll just copy/paste my reply here too:
Actually, their response seems normal for UK network operators. Reverse SMS billing is a disaster waiting to happen. The networks are passing on the charges to you. They cannot just reverse the charge - the charge has to be reversed by the party who initiated the charge - ie. the company who sent the SMS. They have done what (AFAIK) all network operators do and provide you with the details of the company who sent the messages, and therefore billed Vodafone (who then bill you). Specifically, the advice from ICSTIS (the organisation who oversee and 'police' the premium rate telephone servers) is "If you are receiving chargeable text messages that you want to cancel, we would recommend that you get in touch with your mobile provider and ask them for details of the company operating this shortcode. When you have this information, contact that company and request to be unsubscribed from it. We are unable to do this on your behalf." The network themselves aren't the ones to sort this for you. Sending STOP or STOP ALL to the short code *should* stop it - but that doesn't help you reclaim the money from the company who sent the messages. Again, it is not Vodafone who have wronged, and the premium rate regulator will also say the same. |
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Apr 1 2006, 00:00
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#3
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 344 Joined: 8th January 2003 From: Ayrshire,Scotland Member No.: 1,728 |
QUOTE(Swampie @ Mar 31 2006, 23:33)  Seeing as you've posted the same on Modaco and on here, I'll just copy/paste my reply here too: Actually, their response seems normal for UK network operators. Reverse SMS billing is a disaster waiting to happen. The networks are passing on the charges to you. They cannot just reverse the charge - the charge has to be reversed by the party who initiated the charge - ie. the company who sent the SMS. They have done what (AFAIK) all network operators do and provide you with the details of the company who sent the messages, and therefore billed Vodafone (who then bill you). Specifically, the advice from ICSTIS (the organisation who oversee and 'police' the premium rate telephone servers) is "If you are receiving chargeable text messages that you want to cancel, we would recommend that you get in touch with your mobile provider and ask them for details of the company operating this shortcode. When you have this information, contact that company and request to be unsubscribed from it. We are unable to do this on your behalf." The network themselves aren't the ones to sort this for you. Sending STOP or STOP ALL to the short code *should* stop it - but that doesn't help you reclaim the money from the company who sent the messages. Again, it is not Vodafone who have wronged, and the premium rate regulator will also say the same. swampie, I have posted this on modaco, as well as other sites, to warn people that Vodafone do not seem to care that I have had money stolen from my account. I have NOT ordered anything from the company that illegally removed ?7-50p from my account. Vodavone do not seem to care about theft from my account, it may be happening to others too, and refuse to investigate it. Effectively Vodafone are happy for anyone to use my mobile number to buy downloads at my expense. The texts did not appear to have anything attached to them. They simply stated I would be charged ?1-50p. There was no option to reject the text/charge. davy. -------------------- If in doubt ask the experts here first.
Otherwise you will break the bl**dy thing! |
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Apr 1 2006, 01:21
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#4
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Newbie  Group: Posters Posts: 32 Joined: 14th February 2006 Member No.: 172,629 Device(s): T-Mobile MDA |
Hey I work for Cingular which I know is an entirely different company but...the other poster was right. How it works is the 3rd party company charges the provider, who of course charges you.
Here, legally, all these sort of companies are supposed to stop charging you or sending messages when you reply to any of theirs with the word "stop." Unfortunately I have seen cases where when you reply with stop, it'll send another message where you have to send another message with something like "stop flycell" and then the subscription continues anyway. With Cingular, when a customer gets charged by one of these companies they are usually shocked and I've seen TONS of cases where people are charged daily and don't notice. We usually dispute the charges for them and the customer gets a refund. I'm not sure if Cingular has an agreement with the 3rd parties, but that's how it works. The 800 numbers and email addresses are pretty much useless for these companies. About the only reliable ways to stop the subscription is to reply with the word stop, and like I said that doesn't always work. Cingular has started working with the 3rd party companies to implement ways for the customer service reps to cancel the subscriptions from Cingular, but maaaany aren't that easy. If you just got the service and you're getting charged, the number was probably recycled and the previous owner of that number had signed up for these services. You can possibly request a number change... |
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Apr 1 2006, 09:43
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#5
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 344 Joined: 8th January 2003 From: Ayrshire,Scotland Member No.: 1,728 |
jorsher,
thanks for the input. At least Cingular actually try to do something for there customers. Vodafone UK flatly refuse to help. I would like to think that the other UK operators would at least give the impression that they were happy to assist a customer in recovering money stolen from there account. TBH the lost money doesn't bother me that much. I would have used it anyway whilst evaluating the Vodafone service prior to deciding on getting a monthly contract with them or not. Needless to say Vodafone will not be getting any more of my cash. The main reason for posting is to make as many people as possibe aware of how Vodafone UK treats there customers. davy. -------------------- If in doubt ask the experts here first.
Otherwise you will break the bl**dy thing! |
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Apr 1 2006, 10:40
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 Addict  Group: MoDaCo Plus Posts: 991 Joined: 20th March 2004 From: Gloucestershire, UK Member No.: 37,012 Device(s): MDA Vario II |
This type of response from UK operators is typical, across the board, I'm afraid. They do not view it as theft and so, do not treat it as such.
Personally, I think this is deplorable behaviour. To think that this Company can enter your mobile number onto their system and charge you ?7.50 without your consent IS theft - whether you actually miss the money or not  (And without any recourse for complaint / refund / investigation by any monitoring body).If someone walked up to you in the street and rifled through your pockets for ?7.50 in change, you might not miss it too much - but it would still be robbery. Grrrr. Makes me mad it does 
-------------------- MDA Vario II, WM6, SanDisk 2Gb micro-SD, Motorola HS810 BT headset, and chuffed to little mint balls!!!
"What happens to a politician if you give him Viagra? He gets taller" - Jesse Duke, Hazzard County  |
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Apr 1 2006, 11:36
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 iSpork Group: MoDaCo Plus Posts: 537 Joined: 15th February 2005 From: Staffs Member No.: 110,894 Device(s): SE K800, MDA Pro |
I'm going to edit the title of this thread, as Voda do NOT condone any type of theft, and it is slanderous to accuse them of this.
Voda are merely doing the same as every other mobile operator who supports this sort of service on their network - by passing the contact details of the company involved to yourself, they are doing their bit and it isn't their responsibility to further action this. That's just the way it is I'm afraid. --------------------   |
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Apr 1 2006, 12:05
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#8
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 344 Joined: 8th January 2003 From: Ayrshire,Scotland Member No.: 1,728 |
QUOTE(sporkguy @ Apr 1 2006, 11:36) I'm going to edit the title of this thread, as Voda do NOT condone any type of theft, and it is slanderous to accuse them of this. Voda are merely doing the same as every other mobile operator who supports this sort of service on their network - by passing the contact details of the company involved to yourself, they are doing their bit and it isn't their responsibility to further action this. That's just the way it is I'm afraid. Hi, I do not believe there is anything slanderous in my comments. I have advised Vodafone of a theft from my account. They have refused to do anything about it. By refusing to investitgate the matter the are effectively condoning theft. If someone stole money from your bank account, credit card, etc it would be investigated by the Company and most likely by the Police. It would most certainly not be shrugged off as thats just the way it is. davy. -------------------- If in doubt ask the experts here first.
Otherwise you will break the bl**dy thing! |
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Apr 1 2006, 12:12
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#9
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iSpork Group: MoDaCo Plus Posts: 537 Joined: 15th February 2005 From: Staffs Member No.: 110,894 Device(s): SE K800, MDA Pro |
davy, there is nothing Vodafone have done that condones theft.
As has been said many many times in this thread, Voda are merely following procedure that is set in place. If you feel so strongly that Vodafone have been a part of a crime, I invite you to visit your local police station, or to call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111 - Who I'm sure will be happy to help you with your case. -------------------- |
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Apr 1 2006, 13:04
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#10
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 344 Joined: 8th January 2003 From: Ayrshire,Scotland Member No.: 1,728 |
sporkguy,
thanks for your input. The purpose of this thread is to make people aware of how Vodafone treat there customers. If Voda are merely following procedures then I believe there procedures are wrong. I am sure many would agree with me. Do there procedures state how many customers can have money stolen by a particular short code company before they investigate the thefts? I am not going to waste the valuable time of the Police by reporting this matter to them. Should however some other unfortunate Voda customer reading this suffer from theft at the hands of the same shortcode company I am quite happy to provide evidence that Vodaphone are aware of the matter and have done nothing about it. Cheers, davy. -------------------- If in doubt ask the experts here first.
Otherwise you will break the bl**dy thing! |
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Apr 1 2006, 13:53
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#11
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 Enthusiast  Group: Posters Posts: 212 Joined: 31st January 2005 Member No.: 107,774 Device(s): SPV C500 + C600 |
QUOTE(davy @ Apr 1 2006, 13:04) sporkguy, thanks for your input. The purpose of this thread is to make people aware of how Vodafone treat there customers. If Voda are merely following procedures then I believe there procedures are wrong. I am sure many would agree with me. Do there procedures state how many customers can have money stolen by a particular short code company before they investigate the thefts? I am not going to waste the valuable time of the Police by reporting this matter to them. Should however some other unfortunate Voda customer reading this suffer from theft at the hands of the same shortcode company I am quite happy to provide evidence that Vodaphone are aware of the matter and have done nothing about it. Cheers, davy. Happened to my wifes phone on Vodafone, and this was exactly the reason I left them and moved to Orange with both my accounts. I realise it's a very difficult situation but as Davy has said, the complete lack of interest shown by them was an eye opener. -------------------- That cat's something I can't explain.
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Apr 1 2006, 14:31
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#12
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 344 Joined: 8th January 2003 From: Ayrshire,Scotland Member No.: 1,728 |
elgato65,
thanks for the support  .Perhaps I should have mentioned earlier that I have never had such a problem on any of the other UK networks. I have had contracts with Orange, T-mobile and 3 over the years without any thefts occurring on my accounts. Yet within the space of a couple of weeks after joining Vodafone this happens! Coincidence I am sure. Obviously as such thefts have not happened on the other networks I do not know how they would react to such thefts. Has anyone suffered such thefts on any of the other networks? If so have they refused to investigate the matter? Thanks for reading, davy. -------------------- If in doubt ask the experts here first.
Otherwise you will break the bl**dy thing! |
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Apr 1 2006, 15:50
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#13
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Diehard Group: Posters Posts: 385 Joined: 31st March 2005 From: Surrey, UK Member No.: 120,987 Device(s): MDA Vario III + MDA Vario |
QUOTE(davy @ Apr 1 2006, 14:31) Obviously as such thefts have not happened on the other networks I do not know how they would react to such thefts. Has anyone suffered such thefts on any of the other networks? If so have they refused to investigate the matter? Google through the uk.telecom.mobile archives and you'll find that all the networks have had similar complaints regarding unauthorised reverse charge SMS. You'll find that in general, they all say the same thing (ie. they're following Ofcom's and ICSTIS' policies - not their own) - that the refund has to be instigated by the SMS company, and they are obliged to provide details regarding who billed them, and contact details to dispute the charge. Once the SMS company refunds the charge to the network, they'll then refund it to you. Reverse SMS billing is nothing like Direct Debit where you have a guarantee and you can dispute the transaction and you'll get your money back. Neither is it like a Credit Card, where any unauthorised charges can be refunded by your CC company before the offending company is investigated. What it actually is like is a Debit Card. Anyone with the card number and relevent details can make a debit against your account directly. To get a refund, you must get the retailer to refund the money - your bank will do little about it. Note the fraud protection is 99% of the time with credit cards - not debit cards. |
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Apr 2 2006, 08:59
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#14
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